WEBVTT

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Carla: The teachers all around me
say, how come you're so strict?

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You're so mean, and they
won't leave your room.

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They're here after school.

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They're here at lunch.

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These kids never go away.

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What the heck are you doing in there?

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I.

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McKinlay Otterson: That's Carla, a
middle school teacher in inner city

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Phoenix, describing how she gets her
students kids who have faced serious

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life challenges to not just meet
her expectations but exceed them.

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Carla: They had to say,
thank you, Mr. Garcia.

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Thank you, miss so-and-so, so that
we don't say those awful B words,

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that they like to call each other.

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We don't do that in my classroom.

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If, if any adult walks in the room, I
expect the nearest child to that adult

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to get up, offer them a seat, and then
offer to tell them what it is we're doing.

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Doing in the class at that
moment in time so they don't,

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don't interrupt the whole class.

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All those things.

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I want respect.

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The gentleman have to let the
ladies in the classroom first.

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I'm teaching respect and manners and
self-respect for self, all that stuff

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while we're teaching the lessons.

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That's how I roll.

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McKinlay Otterson: Most of us can
probably think of someone, a leader,

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a teacher, a coach who was really
strict with us and we loved it.

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Because somehow their high expectations
felt motivating and rewarding.

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But then we can also probably think of
a person that was really strict who we

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did not enjoy, and it was something about
their rules that annoyed us and caused us

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to resist the expectations that they had.

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So.

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What makes a difference?

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Because feeling like you have
to choose between connecting

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with your team or holding them
accountable is a real struggle.

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Many leaders wrestle with, how do I
build real connection with the people?

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I also have to hold accountable.

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Welcome to Leading Outward, the Arbiter
Institute's podcast, where we explore the

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tools and ideas we've used for over 45
years to help people solve their toughest

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leadership and organizational challenges
by leading with an outward mindset, seeing

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people as people, I'm McKinley Otterson.

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Carla: I am working with inner
city youth here who are troubled,

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and I've been there, done that.

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I had a horrendous growing up.

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We were very poor.

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My mom was a prostitute.

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My dad was an alcoholic.

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I tell these stories in the classroom
to my kids when this time and when

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as appropriate for them to hear
them, and I can tell immediately

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when they start seeing me different.

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Oh my God, she's not
that Mrs. Debo, she's.

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Our Mrs. Devo, she gets it.

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She's been there.

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She can relate.

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I just tell 'em who I am.

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McKinlay Otterson: That phrase,
I just tell them who I am is

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what makes Carla's approach work.

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Her students embrace her
expectations because of the

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connection they feel with her.

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Carla has a degree of willingness to
share with her students who she is.

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She doesn't just acknowledge the
challenges that they're experiencing,

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but she willingly shares with them
the challenges that she's faced,

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so they get a chance to know her,
not only as their teacher, but as

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a person, as Carla, as someone who
experienced a lot of the same things

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Carla: that they do.

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I have teachers I work with
on a day-to-day basis, and the

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children don't even know that
these teachers have children.

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I find that astonishing.

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We don't open up and say who we are.

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We are afraid to talk about who we really
are as human beings for some reason.

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And then you, oh my God,
he's not so perfect.

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He's just like me.

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I felt that.

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I've been there, I've done this, and, and
all of a sudden the perfect goes away.

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The real comes out, and then
you start listening to people.

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McKinlay Otterson: Carla's experience
leading a classroom illustrates something

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that can seem really counterintuitive.

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Many of us think that there needs to be
distance between me and those I lead.

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How can I lead them if there's not?

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But what we see in Carla is that her
ability to lead comes from having both

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connection and high expectations, but it
can feel like you have to choose, like

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you can either connect with your team.

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Or have accountability, but not both.

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We want the connection
that builds trust and the

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accountability that drives results.

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Naomi Franchetti: I was in the
Air Force for 26 years and I

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was an ICBM missile maintenance,
nuclear weapons munitions officer.

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McKinlay Otterson: This is
Naomi Franchetti, a US Air Force

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commander who had to learn to create
connection in a culture driven

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by extremely high expectations.

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Naomi Franchetti: When you think of your
past experiences shaping who you are as

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a person and who I was as a officer in
the military, you're dealing with nuclear

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weapons, you're dealing with ICBMs.

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It takes a lot of risk to to go outside
the norm to do something different because

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we're used to hearing things like, don't
do anything dumb, dangerous, or different.

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We just gotta get the job done
and, and you're gonna do it my way.

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And that really shapes
who you are as a leader.

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What was it like trying to
lead in that environment?

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It was challenging
because I was different.

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I wasn't a lot of female
perspectives in missile maintenance.

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In fact, when I was at the Pentagon, we
did the analysis and I wanted to say,

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oh, at the time 6% females, that's it.

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Wow.

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And so what the community prized,
what they valued, especially when

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I was a young lieutenant, is.

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People that just talked the
loudest, or people that portrayed

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themselves as knowing it all.

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And that to me isn't my
default, if you will.

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You know, I much more like
to listen, have more empathy.

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And so I really felt that
through my time in the military.

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I guess I just got more and more
authentically me, and I retired as the

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sixth four munition squadron commander.

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That was my most authentic
self when I was in that role.

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Why is that?

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Less interpersonal risk because
I knew I could retire so I could

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be myself without repercussion of
not getting promoted or whatever.

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I don't, I don't have to
worry about that anymore.

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That, and so I think that also played
a major role in me being authentic.

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McKinlay Otterson: Did you feel
like, oh, this was good that I waited

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until now to be more authentic?

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Or did you feel like I could
have been doing this sooner?

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Probably a little bit of both.

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When Naomi shared that she felt
most authentic in her final command

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because she knew she could retire, I
actually found myself feeling a bit

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discouraged and thinking, don't tell
me that we have to wait until the

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end of our career to feel safe enough
to connect with the people we lead.

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I. That's why I asked if she felt like
she could have been more authentic earlier

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on, honestly, in the hopes that she'd say
yes, and I regret not doing it sooner.

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But what Naomie's story reveals
is far more complicated.

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Her experience sheds light on the
very real and inherent risk in

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connecting, especially in environments
where accountability is everything.

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And when you're under pressure
to deliver results, it's easy to

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believe that real connection is
a luxury that you cannot afford.

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But when accountability isn't grounded
in connection, the results often suffer.

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My first

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Naomi Franchetti: command was
more about survival than thriving.

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I was 32 weeks pregnant when I took
commands, and so I thought, oh, great.

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I've got eight weeks to just
really get in there, get into the

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organization, see what's going
on, see what needs to be changed.

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But I was greatly surprised when at.

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34 weeks.

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So only two weeks later that I wasn't
feeling well and, and my doctor

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said, Hey, come in and get checked
out to make sure everything's okay.

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And as soon as they had strapped
me up into the triage room, my

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water broke and they said, I guess
you're having your baby today.

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And I completely lost it.

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I was ill prepared at that point
to be, to be having a baby.

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I'm like, oh my God, I wasn't
even through all my classes yet.

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I end up having my baby that day.

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And when she came out,
she wasn't breathing.

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They're working on her.

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They got her breathing and she
spent three weeks in the nicu.

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When you talk about hard things
that happen, that was one of them.

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My husband and I had a lot
of infertility struggles.

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It took years to come to this
point and and now we're in the

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nicu and gosh, that was hard.

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It was really difficult.

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We made it outta the nicu.

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But one of the things that also
happened when I was on maternity

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leave, our organization had a suicide
and I had to make the decision, am

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I gonna come off on maternity leave?

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After everything that had happened with
my daughter and, and I. Work with the

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organization, you know, to go to work
through this, or am I getting to stay

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on my maternity leave and continue to be
with my daughter that got outta the nicu?

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McKinlay Otterson: Imagine that Naomi
became a commander for the very first

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time right before she became a mom.

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And now she's dealing with
crises on both fronts.

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She almost lost her daughter and she
did lose a member of her organization.

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And now she has people that
expect things from her, both

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professionally and personally.

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Naomi Franchetti: So the decision I
made was to stay with my daughter.

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Okay.

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And my commander, he, he called me and
said, are you gonna come back off your

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maternity leave to to deal with this?

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And I said, well.

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Sir, you know, the organization has the
ops officer, the organization has the

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chief and the first sergeant, but my
daughter only has myself and my husband,

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who's also active duty at the time, and,
and I think I need to be with my daughter

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when I did come back from maternity leave.

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My commander, he said, um, I just want
you to know that everybody is talking

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about the fact that you didn't come back
and deal with the suicide that happened

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in your organization, and I just want
you to know that it's out there and Whew.

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It was hard.

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It was really hard to hear that.

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What it ended up doing for me was
feeling like I was at risk a lot.

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I was at risk that I wasn't a good
commander because I didn't put my

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organization first over my family,
you know, service before self, right?

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Like I should be, I should be doing
these things, but in reality, I wouldn't

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have changed that decision for anything.

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But I will say then it made it really
difficult, especially dealing with that

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commander and the other individuals.

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On, on base, knowing that they were
talking about decision i I made and

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they wouldn't have made the same choice.

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I still feel it inside
when I talk about that.

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So it's, it's tough.

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It was tough.

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McKinlay Otterson: At this point in
Naomie's story, I'm thinking back to

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what she said earlier, that she felt
most authentic in her last command

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because she knew she could retire.

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After hearing this experience,
that makes perfect sense.

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Of course, she felt trepidation
throughout her career to connect with

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people when this was her experience.

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But what's so powerful about
Naomi's leadership is what

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happened when she returned to work.

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Naomi Franchetti: When I actually
came back to work, the first

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sergeant said, Hey, you need to tell
everybody what you're going through.

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And I'm, oh my man, that's a lot.

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That's a lot.

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To be vulnerable in front of
hundreds of people and tell 'em the

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challenges I just went through when
I don't even know that I'm okay yet.

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Right.

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And so, um, he convinced
me, and I'm glad he did.

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We had commander's call and
once I shared that though.

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Man, you talk about creating a
safe space for others to open up.

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I had so many airmen come to me
and say, thank you for sharing.

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I wanna tell you about something
that I'm going through now.

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And so to me, showing that vulnerability,
creating a safe space for others to

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share, doing the hard first step,
sharing when you're not at your best or

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when you've gone through an emotional
struggle or physical struggle, whatever.

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I mean.

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I think that's, that's what
impacted my leadership the most.

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And I mean, it wasn't the intention
at the time, honestly, it was just

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to share that, hey, this is why I
didn't come back to deal with that.

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Um, but in the end, it
actually strengthened us as

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an organization and as a team.

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That's part of the reason why
I was who I was and, and how I

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continue to really focus on people.

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Honestly,

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McKinlay Otterson: Naomi's
experience highlights a reality

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that is present for all of us.

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There will always be some degree of
risk in connecting with the people

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around us, and the degree of risk will
vary based on a variety of factors.

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But it is true that you
can never be free of risk.

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So if this is all true, why would I
choose to make connections at all?

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Why would I choose to trust the people
around me when there is no guarantee?

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It will turn out well.

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Naomi gave us the reason why she said
in the end, it actually strengthened

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us as an organization and as a team,
and the research backs this up.

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A study by Korn Ferry found that 50% of
CEOs report feeling lonely, and 60% of

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those leaders believe that loneliness
negatively impacts their performance.

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And it's not just CEOs.

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Gallup has found that employees
who have meaningful connections at

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work are nearly 70% more engaged.

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And studies like this resonate
with me because this is me.

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I fall hard onto the connection side of
leadership because connecting with people

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is enjoyable and it's comfortable for me.

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So when I hear that connection drives
engagement and performance, I think.

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Exactly.

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This is why I lead the way I do.

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And for a long time I believed that
was all I needed to be a good leader.

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But turns out that is not the case because
despite the connection I had with my

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team, I was still confronted with people
who missed deadlines and didn't follow

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through on commitments whose work was
not to the standard they were capable

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of, all of which negatively impacted our
team, the production, and the company.

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And instead of addressing it,
I'd make excuses for them.

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I know they have a ton going on at
home, or they're still wrapping their

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heads around this whole project,
or I'd make excuses for myself.

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I should not have to
address this with them.

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They're adults or this is what having a
job means that you get your stuff done.

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I remember one production in particular
where we were behind schedule.

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People weren't executing in the way that
we needed, which was having a domino

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effect on all the other aspects of the
production, and instead of stepping in

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to have the needed conversations and
clarify expectations, I just kept hoping

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that things would work themselves out.

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But unsurprisingly.

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They did not.

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And one day it dawned on me that the
cost of me not having these needed

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conversations was that the production
would fail, and suddenly recognizing

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that the end objective, the end result
was in jeopardy because of my action.

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Or.

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Really, my lack of action kicked me
into gear because I knew I could do

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something to help this situation.

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I already had sensed that I needed to have
these conversations, but I had avoided

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having them because I kept thinking if
I have these conversations, I. I'm gonna

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lose the relationship, the connection
that I do have with these people.

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But that was a delusion because
avoiding those conversations

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wasn't protecting anything.

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Not the people, not the project.

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It was totally corroding the trust
that did exist and our ability to reach

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our end goal, our objective, and when
I finally had these conversations.

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There was relief on both sides because we
finally had clarity, clear expectations,

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clear ownership, clear understanding
of what needed to happen next.

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And what surprised me most is that
the connection I was so afraid

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of losing actually got stronger
because our alignment eliminated

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our frustrations towards each other.

17:14.984 --> 17:18.315
Things still needed to change and
deadlines still needed to be hit.

17:18.525 --> 17:23.325
But now we were talking about that
openly instead of operating in silence.

17:24.704 --> 17:28.605
When I was focused only on connection,
I thought I was protecting the

17:28.605 --> 17:30.735
relationship I had with my team.

17:30.975 --> 17:36.255
But really I was setting up individuals
and our team to fail, and when I

17:36.255 --> 17:40.185
finally had the courage to require
excellence and accountability, the

17:40.185 --> 17:42.555
relationships with those people deepened.

17:43.785 --> 17:48.525
So if you're someone who leans heavily
into connection like me, those hard

17:48.525 --> 17:53.715
conversations might feel like a threat
to your relationships, but they're not.

17:54.135 --> 17:56.655
They're what make those
relationships real.

17:57.675 --> 18:01.905
And if you're someone who's great at
setting expectations but hesitant to

18:01.905 --> 18:07.275
connect, remember that the accountability
you're working to develop will only stick.

18:07.665 --> 18:10.545
If your people know that
you're on their side.

18:16.695 --> 18:19.545
Now, back to the question we
asked at the top of the show.

18:20.385 --> 18:23.415
How do I build real
connection with the people?

18:23.415 --> 18:25.875
I also have to hold accountable.

18:27.990 --> 18:31.560
We know that real connection
has risk involved in it.

18:32.250 --> 18:34.950
Naomi's career in the Air
Force helped us see this.

18:35.310 --> 18:39.120
Naomi Franchetti: That was my most
authentic self when I was in that role

18:39.240 --> 18:41.190
because I knew I could retire so I could.

18:42.084 --> 18:43.554
Be myself without repercussion

18:44.125 --> 18:46.195
McKinlay Otterson: and Carla's
career in the corporate world,

18:46.284 --> 18:47.665
well before she was a teacher.

18:48.054 --> 18:49.314
Helps us see this as well.

18:49.855 --> 18:49.945
The

18:49.945 --> 18:52.615
Carla: people I worked with for
20 years didn't know who I was.

18:52.620 --> 18:53.245
They didn't have a clue.

18:54.685 --> 18:59.004
They had no idea who I was, but I thought,

18:59.125 --> 18:59.936
McKinlay Otterson: I have to tell 'em.

19:00.810 --> 19:03.294
It's human to guard ourselves.

19:03.679 --> 19:07.250
It's how we protect against
disappointment, rejection, betrayal.

19:07.760 --> 19:12.230
But Carla and Naomi discovered
something surprising when they stopped

19:12.230 --> 19:17.090
working so hard to shield themselves
from potential and very real harm.

19:17.689 --> 19:22.100
They found meaning and productivity
they didn't know was waiting to be

19:22.280 --> 19:22.790
Carla: tapped.

19:23.065 --> 19:26.215
And they stunned me in return
by sharing who they really were.

19:26.485 --> 19:28.135
All of us had stuff.

19:28.195 --> 19:31.405
We were human doings, we were
actually human beings with heart,

19:31.405 --> 19:36.235
with feelings and pain, and you just
can't help but see people differently.

19:36.805 --> 19:41.575
You couldn't pick up the phone Monday and
go ask somebody that you knew had personal

19:41.575 --> 19:44.725
issues with suffering at home with
different kinds of things without even.

19:44.830 --> 19:46.840
Saying to them, well,
how's it going at home?

19:47.020 --> 19:47.949
What's going on?

19:48.040 --> 19:49.480
Okay, let's make this deal happen.

19:49.570 --> 19:50.590
Let's do this and move on.

19:50.590 --> 19:54.730
And that's exactly how fast
things changed for all of us.

19:56.110 --> 19:58.090
McKinlay Otterson: It turns
out we can't choose between

19:58.090 --> 19:59.409
connection and accountability.

20:00.010 --> 20:02.439
We either have both of
them or neither of them.

20:03.129 --> 20:07.570
That's the challenge and the opportunity
for us as leaders and just as humans.

20:08.230 --> 20:11.080
And the gift of getting to hear
other people's experiences is that

20:11.080 --> 20:14.860
we get to extract the wisdom from
them now and the wisdom we learn.

20:14.860 --> 20:18.429
From Naomi and Carla is
to skip the 20 year wait.

20:18.820 --> 20:22.870
Take action now, and if you're anything
like me, you've had a person or a

20:22.870 --> 20:26.470
situation or maybe even a couple
come to mind as you've been listening

20:26.740 --> 20:28.270
along with a sense of something to do.

20:28.899 --> 20:32.740
So the invitation is to take that
action, follow through on your sense,

20:33.070 --> 20:36.760
because it's that constant series
of action that creates relationships

20:36.760 --> 20:38.710
full of connection and accountability.

20:52.320 --> 20:56.760
Leading Outward is produced by the
Arbinger Institute to have a conversation

20:56.760 --> 21:00.450
about how we can equip you to transform
your leaders and organization.

21:00.930 --> 21:06.120
Schedule a complimentary strategy
session@arbinger.com and whatever came

21:06.120 --> 21:09.930
to mind for you while you were listening,
a conversation you've been putting off,

21:09.990 --> 21:14.490
or feedback that needs to be shared
action, you need to take, don't wait.

21:14.820 --> 21:16.620
Take that action because.

21:17.010 --> 21:18.720
That's how change starts.